Curse

Megamanfan · Nov 27, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Maybe they plan on doing it like what they did with Diablo 2 and D2: LoD...they had an assassin too!

IlikeGW · Nov 27, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

It's just going to be a pointless expansion. There's too much weakly developed about the game already to bring me back. Maybe if they had the wits to see they left their competitive audience stabbed in the nuts at release they could gain back some ground, but everywhere I go people only play this game for a couple weeks or month then don't touch it.

Fear The Destroyer · Nov 27, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I think the most fair thing to do is leave the level cap as it is. Just give us more content with Chapter 2.

ArenaNet could give everyone the new level cap (30-40?), and allow the non-Chapter 2 players to gain experience in new zones in Chapter 1, or existing zones in Chapter 1 like the Underworld, the Fissure of Woe, etc.

If they did that, they would most likely have to release new items with better stats. If that happend, there would be a lot of disappointment from players who spent so much time working hard on obtaining expensive items like FoW armor, runes, weapons, etc.
The solution to this, could be; allow players to upgrade their items' stats via-quests, NPCs, etc.

There's still more issues to resolve if they did raise the level cap. That's why I think they won't raise the level cap.

Loviatar · Nov 27, 2005, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fear The Destroyer

I think the most fair thing to do is leave the level cap as it is. Just give us more content with Chapter 2.

ArenaNet could give everyone the new level cap (30-40?), and allow the non-Chapter 2 players to gain experience in new zones in Chapter 1, or existing zones in Chapter 1 like the Underworld, the Fissure of Woe, etc.

There's still more issues to resolve if they did raise the level cap. That's why I think they won't raise the level cap.

and as another official statement said

Quote:

Our maximum level is twenty and you hit that very quickly, after about 20-30 hours of play. ,We call that 'The Point of Ascension'. Almost all of the content in the game and in the future Chapters is only available to Ascended characters, which means we don't have to worry about providing DIFFERENT levels of content. All the good stuff will be available to everyone. It's not our intent to force people onto the levelling up treadmill, so the level cap in Guild Wars is almost meaningless.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Nov 27, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

One of the pinnacles of an rpg is character progression. One of the easiest ways to do this is through "numerical inflation" as some of you say. Is the story important? Yes. Is exploration important? Yes. While I'm not outright saying they will or won't raise the level cap, I feel they will do something in order to give a sense of character progression. If levels were so unimportant, then there wouldn't be 20 levels in this game in the first place. Why are there varying weapon damages in the game? Why are there attribute points? Why are there different armor values as you progress? If only story and exploration were important, you could make an action game and not call it an rpg. I believe they will do something in order to give a sense of character progression.

Well up to a certain point, "character progression" (aka character leveling) no longer feels like progressing but rather a chore. GW gives us 20 levels to feel that progression. Then you can gather skills and runes to further your sense of progression.

Sorry, but if you're into a game for a high level of "character progression" this really isnt the game for you. I don't know how many times we have to drill that into people's heads.

There are plenty of ways that can be incorporated into GW to give you a sense of progression though, without making it a mandatory thing. Customization for example. Maybe some frivolous titles to go with your names or just some trinkets or trophies.

Lexar · Nov 27, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

After you ascend, they should drop the lvl 20 indicator in front of your name, (like it says for example 'W/Mo 20 Feiry dagronsordmastah') because it serves no purpose anymore, anyway. If they did that, it would clear a lot of misconceptions people have with thinking levels are important in the game.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 27, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Excellent point, Lov. The level cap allows ANet to ensure that the "ascended" content will be suitable for everyone. It's more of a minimum grade than a glass ceiling. After all, there is a limited to human development - we don't keep growing taller, get stronger, etc. There comes a point in our lives where we reach our peak and have to face life as we are. And I love the way my characters face different challenges knowing that they've got to rely on themselves (and their team-mates!) as they are.

All I can say is ANet MUST have a lot more PvE content in Chapter 2, as it is important to keep the community stimulated. Of course we will need other changes, but PvE is a very important part of the game. Perhaps if they could have more free updates like Sorrow's Furnace in between chapter releases, that could keep things ticking over.

Would it be too much to hope for some mummy-type things in the desert? Come on, we could have a whole "Ancient Egypt thing" going based on the forgotten civilization of the serpent-people (what was their name?) with ancient temples, hieroglyph-filled rooms, traps, pyramids, etc. The possibilities are endless.......

Plus I think we need more plot-work concerning the liche. I think the Undead should be given a large role in the update. Also I think the Cathay-type lands where Jiaju Tai comes from should be accessible as well. They would provide a rich-tapestry for the ANet team to work with, as obviously no one has been there yet. Think of all the Oriental (read Far East) culture that could be thrown in.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 27, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

After you ascend, they should drop the lvl 20 indicator in front of your name, (like it says for example 'W/Mo 20 Feiry dagronsordmastah') because it serves no purpose anymore, anyway. If they did that, it would clear a lot of misconceptions people have with thinking levels are important in the game.

Interesting. Perhaps you could replace the lvl 20 with other titles that you coudl earn through doing certain quests, missions, etc.

Lexar · Nov 27, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

Interesting. Perhaps you could replace the lvl 20 with other titles that you coudl earn through doing certain quests, missions, etc.

That's also a great idea, but maybe instead of titles, more something along the lines of medals. Like a sort of pictogram you could get if you finish all the main quests or all the bonus missions. 'W/Mo

Feiry Dagronsordmastah'

Takeko Nakano · Nov 27, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

That's also a great idea, but maybe instead of titles, more something along the lines of medals. Like a sort of pictogram you could get if you finish all the main quests or all the bonus missions. 'W/Mo

Feiry Dagronsordmastah'

I think titles would be dealt out by finishing particularly difficult quests, doing all the primary stuff, etc. A specific bonus would be ok, but doing all the bonuses in the game would be rather boring (especially as it's impossible to remember all of the ones that you've done).

Lexar · Nov 27, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I did them all. You can see it on the map if the mission icon has one or two swords.

LOL @ OS conversation

Pagan Greyfeather · Nov 28, 2005, 12:57 AM // 00:57

My only real concern has been beaten to death in this forum and others. Lets do something with the Guild Hall. Storage, trophy cases, drapes, whatever. For a game based on "Guilds" the halls are massively disappointing. I'm not real big on the "roleplaying" aspect of the game but it would be nice to have the hall be something more than a place to GvG. It should be the "center" of your Guild. There should be a reason your members want to hang out there. I disagreed with ANet when they made getting sigils so easy. I think the Hall should be earned in HoH. Win the durn sigil and it marks an "achievement" for your guild. We disbanded and reformed to specifically do just that. Been in the hall twice now, no luck so far but we will win and it will mean that much more to us. I hope they rethink/revamp the Halls and thier role in the game. my 2 cents-Pagan
p.s. to Patient Relaxed People and Korea One. Please let me know when y'all are not playing cause facing both of you at the same time in the Hall, although a learning experience, is not something i care to repeat! lol

-Loki- · Nov 28, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

One main goal I read (I think in the Gamespot interview) was that chapter 2 was going to focus on "putting the guild into guild wars". In other words, improvements on guild functionality.

4thVariety · Nov 28, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

I've bee playing RPGs now for 15 years. Pen and Paper and Computer based.
RPGs do not get "better" when the max LvL is "higher".
You are a good GW player if you collect your skills, know how to use them and get smart at creating Builds.
You are a bad player if you think that LvL 20 is enough top make you the rulor of the world.

If the player encounters a problem in WoW or any other OnlineRPG he can either throw "experience points and additional levels" at the problem or he solves it by getting "enough" players to attack "the problem"

That does not work in GW, that's why I like it. The Player has to be smart and strong not the online persona.

twicky_kid · Nov 28, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27

right now is the lowest point you will see GW at. with the schedule they released pve content is going to start coming fast.

chapter 1 released
1 year later chapter 2 release
6 mo after that a new chapter or expansion

i think every 6 months would be enough time to get bored with pve then add more content.

since more skills will be added with these expansions pvp will be altered too. looking forward to the future of this game.

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 28, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Going around and collecting skills is simple. I probably have unlocked about 90% of all of the skills in the game. I have all of the ranger skills. I have all but 5 warrior skills. My mesmer only needs 6 more elites and she is done. My Monk needs 7 more skills. I could go on, but my point is, some time before the end of the year, I'll have unlocked every single skill available - and this was done via PVE, not faction farming. And this is from about six months of play.

Over 400 skills unlocked via PVE. I've done all of the content countless times, and find no other real meaning to the game, except grinding - grinding faction, experience, or farming.

Just adding a couple new professions and some new PVE content isn't going to solve the real lack of "accomplishment" - even if it's an artificial level up "carrot".

Anet added a lot of great new high level content already - yet hardly anyone does them. Getting a PUG together at Granite Citadel to defend droknar's takes ages. Everyone is simply farming at SF, to get stupid green items, or farming FoW or UW. Or doing solo runs killing griffons.

Farm farm farm.

Soooo....just what does the general state of the game have to do with people's lofty expectations of what GW should be?

twicky_kid · Nov 28, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Going around and collecting skills is simple. I probably have unlocked about 90% of all of the skills in the game. I have all of the ranger skills. I have all but 5 warrior skills. My mesmer only needs 6 more elites and she is done. My Monk needs 7 more skills. I could go on, but my point is, some time before the end of the year, I'll have unlocked every single skill available - and this was done via PVE, not faction farming. And this is from about six months of play.

Over 400 skills unlocked via PVE. I've done all of the content countless times, and find no other real meaning to the game, except grinding - grinding faction, experience, or farming.

Just adding a couple new professions and some new PVE content isn't going to solve the real lack of "accomplishment" - even if it's an artificial level up "carrot".

Anet added a lot of great new high level content already - yet hardly anyone does them. Getting a PUG together at Granite Citadel to defend droknar's takes ages. Everyone is simply farming at SF, to get stupid green items, or farming FoW or UW. Or doing solo runs killing griffons.

Farm farm farm.

Soooo....just what does the general state of the game have to do with people's lofty expectations of what GW should be?

its so strange to me that people have become acustomed to grinding so much in other games that's all they know how to do in this one.

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 28, 2005, 08:31 AM // 08:31

What is depressing to me is that all of the "grinding" has little to do with getting better in the game.

You grind to farm ecto. The ecto is for FoW armor, which does nothing for you to be a better player. Or you sell the ecto, to make money to buy that shiny new axe with all of those cool mods - which doesn't make you a better player.

Or you grind farming by doing solo runs against griffons (or whatever) for gold. Again, just to gain money, which has little to do with making you a better player.

Or you do countless SF runs to get green items which does nothing to make you better.

It's meaningless grind, it doesn't give you much of a sense of accomplishment. OK, you got that neat-o FoW armor, and it doesn't do anything for you but give you a false sense of betterment. I laugh every time I run up against a player in PVE that thinks he's invincible with his new FoW armor. Or his new shiny gold chaos axe that doesn't kill any faster than a collectors item that cost 1/100th of what you spent for the rare.

I had one player in UW bragging about how he was rank 6 and how he wasn't a noob - yet he was nothing more than a cowboy, he had no clue about how to play in the UW and quit five minutes in because he stupidly aggroed some monsters and died.

My only question is - what's the point? What is the next chapter going to give us that solves this fundamental problem - the problem of the game devolving into meaningless farming? Whether or not the devs meant for the game to turn out to be a farming game - it is what it is.

In diablo 2, farming at least had a point. There were tangible rewards for making 2,000 Rindleskin runs - the off chance of getting that uber item you've coveted - one that DOES impact how well you're able to play the game. GW lacks that one aspect - replacing meaningful grind with arbitrary grind for cosmetics.

GW is nothing more than a fashion show, really. People want items that look cool. They want jewelry, baubles, being able to turn off their capes, dye their armor black, change their hair style, auras, glows - all things that ultimately do nothing that effects how the game PLAYS.

Shrug, that's not enough, ultimately, to sustain a game, IMO. At some point, everyone will have the baubles and shiny things to make them visualy satisfied, or unique, and then....what?

Games should have a carrot/stick aspect of the game. It should draw you in with rewards for good play - but keep the next best thing just out of reach for the player - and once they reach that goal - to have another one in the wings. GW lacks this.

It will be a problem down the road, I guarantee it. People will quest after shiny toys that ultimately do nothing better than the ones before it for only so long before they get bored.

Sorry for the spam, but I thought of something else that reinforces my arguement.

A few days ago, I went back with my warrior to redo Thirsty River - for some reason, I had forgotten to cap the skill there, and so I joined a PUG.

We went through the mission fairly easily. Everyone seemed to have a clue about what they needed to do. We finished in enough time to get the bonus, and everyone was happy.

After we zoned back to Augury Rock, one of the other players asked to see my shield - the collector's crimson carapace shield that gives you +45 health and -2 damage.

I showed it to him, and he whipped out his -3 damage shield to brag.

I told him it was nice (being polite) and he said "yeah, it's better than yours".

I told him that it didn't matter to me if it was or not - in the grand scheme of things, the difference between -2 and -3 isn't going to make any difference. He loled at that and left.

There is just so much fundamentally wrong with his attitude - and is the reason why farming is so prevalent yet such a waste of time. As long as people's perceptions of what is "better" is simply cosmetic, people will attach false values on items that doesn't statistically do squat for them.

Roza · Nov 28, 2005, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

GW is nothing more than a fashion show, really. People want items that look cool. They want jewelry, baubles, being able to turn off their capes, dye their armor black, change their hair style, auras, glows - all things that ultimately do nothing that effects how the game PLAYS.

What is wrong with a fashion show? Fashion shows are fun to a lot of people. For example, those people actually enjoying shopping for clothes. My only problem with that is that the fashion show requires you to go through a grind (so I skip that part mostly).

In PvE, there is really no way to get 'better' at some point (only the gold sinks are left as 'goals' at some point). I am not sure if you like pvp, but the 'cap' on self-improvement is not reached so quickly there. Try picking a new goal. Such as "joining a good guild and helping them to become the #1 guild in America/Europe/Korea, taking part in the GW championship-tournament and becoming world champion."

Seriously, if you want something more than just grinding for gold with little by way of real rewards and are looking for real challenges, pvp is the way to go. It will be a long time before you have made enough progress to be able to take and hold the HoH anytime you and your friends/guidies feel like it.

Frank The Tank · Nov 28, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

If you want to spend your time pointlessly leveling, go play WoW. Raising the level cap would kill the concept of GW - that you don't have to spend your life playing to compete effectively against others in pvp.

Now.. as to the job that ANet has done so far on making this a game for the casual gamer... *shrug*
*coughbullsh!tcough*

I guess that's why WoW is so hugely successful (and still growing) & why GW is at a low point now.

IMHO a MMORPG is not for the casual gamer and should not be designed as such.

There is a lot to fix now before the expansion hits, or it may DOA.